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Tuesday, October 17, 2017

Where Are They Now?

Some people, while not themselves involved in consanguinamory, are turned on by erotica with an incest theme. Some people who are, or have been, involved in consanguinamory want nothing to do interacting with or providing masturbation material for the first group. This causes friction when these two groups intersect at incest websites. (As always, I’m referring to adult consensual sex.) Some discussion forums have deliberately maintained a policy prohibiting pornographic images or videos. Some of the antiporn sentiment within the consanguinamory community mirrors a general population antiporn sentiment that adult videos and images aren’t good representations of, or are even antithetical to, the reality of intimacy and lovemaking.

I'm not here to take sides on that issue. I try to keep this blog a safe and welcoming place to visit for all.

The rest of this entry is about a specific set of such explicit adult incest videos that have been widely circulated, as I have a curiosity about the participants. Click to read more only if you want to read or comment on this subject. [I am bumping up this entry because it is still relevant. Check the comments below for some updates.]
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Monday, October 16, 2017

Oregon Still Wasting Resources Prosecuting Consenting Adults


Here's an update on lovers we last covered on this blog over two years go.

Why are the authorities in Oregon still wasting time, energy, and money prosecuting consenting adults for loving each other? This doesn't help anything. It just makes things worse, and is unconstitutional.



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New to This Blog or Looking to Find Out More?

We support the rights of an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion, to share love, sex, residence, and marriage (and any other union offered by law), and any of those things without the others, with any and all consenting adults, without fear of prosecution, bullying, or discrimination. These are basic human rights and it shouldn't matter who is disgusted by the relationships of other adults or who doesn't understand why the adults would want to be together.

If you're viewing the desktop/laptop version, you'll see that over there in the column on the right you can find ways to connect and to follow this blog, and at the top of the page are tabs with drop-downs of some important pages, entries, and links. If you're viewing a mobile version, many of the links are below.

You are welcomed and affirmed here regardless of your gender, sexuality, or relationship diversities, and whether you are looking for more information, are in the closet or out about your gender, sexual orientation, or relationship, or want to be an ally. Are you here because of polyamory or polygamy? Perhaps you're here because this blog covers Genetic Sexual Attraction or consanguinamory (consensual incest) or because you think or know your partner has been involved? Do you need help? Whether you're a family member or friend who is looking for more information, or a journalist, or are someone who is looking to help the cause, we hope you are helped by what is here.

There's an About This Blog page, and you can read about the triad who originally inspired this blog.

There's a Glossary so that you can become familiar with terms frequently used here.

We explain why we need solidarity in supporting full marriage equality and we debunk all the arguments that you'll ever hear made against equality, so if you're against equal rights, please carefully read through that page.

On the Case Studies page we feature interviews with people who have been denied their rights, so you can "meet" people who are, or have been, in consensual loving relationships who have are harmed by the lack of equality under the law.

This blog is a labor of love. There's no advertising and we don't accept monetary contributions. Want to help? Spread the word. If you are a lawyer, attorney, or someone who works with a legal group or law firm, we'd like to hear from you if you are supportive. Also, this blog DOES accept content submissions (Keith can be contacted at... fullmarriageequality at yahoo dot com), but makes no offer, implicit nor explicit, of compensation nor guarantees that it will be used. If you want to tell your story, that would be very helpful to others!

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Myths about Genetic Sexual Attraction
Ten Myths About Sibling Consanguinamory
Bad Reasons to Deny Love
Ten Reasons Why Consensual Incest is Wrong (Sarcastic) 



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Saturday, October 14, 2017

Living Consanguinamorously - Dating Outside the Family

"Is it cheating to keep or start being with my relative while dating people outside the family?"
Cheating, which is not to be confused with ethical nonmonogamy, is violating existing agreements with one or more lovers while letting them believe the agreement continues to be in effect and unaltered. So if you have an ongoing sexual relationship with a close relative or family member you will keep, or you are pursuing one, you should not indicate to potential new lovers outside the family that you'll be sexually exclusive with them.

While many people find consanguinamorous relationships to be the best, or are consang in orientation, others are polyamorous (especially as an orientation) and either don't find other consanguineous lovers or have a need for someone who happens to be outside of the family. They might even want a unrelated lover as practical matter, whether due to discrimination against consanguinamory or not. Please do not make someone an unwitting beard, however; it's generally a bad idea to deceive someone entering into a committed relationship with you because you aren't or can't be out about your orientation, relationships, or sex life.

There is not necessarily a need to tell potential new lovers you're involved in or pursuing consanguinamory. In most cases, outing yourself would be a bad idea, especially since consanguinamory is still illegal in many places. However, in many more places, ethical nonmonogamy has mostly been decriminalized or wasn't criminalized in the first place, depending on where you are, so it is far less of a problem to be out as an ethical nonmonogamist.


Do It This Way

Unless you want someone who'll know everything about you and what you do, or you're looking for an informed beard, the best approach when attempting to start new relationships or connect with new lovers is to share with them that 1) you're not going to be sexually exclusive with them and 2) you will not be telling them about your over lover(s). (We're assuming your consang partners are informed and agreeable.)

For some people, this will be the end of seeing you. You have to accept that.

Others will accept those terms and will keep seeing you. They may or may not have the same terms themselves. 

There may come a time when you've determined it would be good to tell your unrelated lovers about some or all of your consanguinamorous involvements. Since this would be a change in your agreement, you should ask them if they are willing to agree to this change (in other words, ask if they want to hear about your other lovers), and you should let them know whether this will be an ongoing change or if this is just a momentary one. Please consider that they may not be willing to change their terms, such as if they have previously maintained that they will not be telling you about their other lovers. That can be a part of how you determine whether or not to share new information.

The possible positive reactions could range from basic acceptance, being an ally, thinking it is sexy, wanting details, wanting to watch, wanting to participate, or sharing information about their own experiences with consanguinamory, so be prepared to reset boundaries depending on your comfort and needs and those of your consang partner(s).

Note that this way of handing nonmonogamy can be applied to just about any relationship. Be honest, but you can be honest in ways that still protect you and others. Don't promise anything you can't deliver. Explain your needs, your boundaries, your expectations, and what you will bring to the relationship; what needs of theirs you can meet. Accept that you may change and others may change, but do not rely on the possibility that others will change to be more to your liking. Don't do, or allow to be done to you, anything to which you don't consent, and don't do anything to others to which they haven't consented.


Sharing Property, Contracts, and Parenting with an Unrelated Lover

Casual romance, sex, or play is one thing, but if you get to a point with an unrelated lover that you're considering doing something serious with them, like buying a home or making other significant purchases; co-signing contracts such as marriage licenses, domestic partnerships, business partnerships, leases; or raising children together, it would be a bad idea to do so without being out to them as consanguinamorous and having their support, especially if you live where consanguinamory is still criminalized. Again, making someone an unwitting beard should be avoided. The last thing you want is to have a home, retirement account, and 2.3 children with someone and have them shocked to discover you in bed with your cousin/sibling/parent/whomever and then turning you over to be prosecuted.


Yet Another Reason For Full Marriage Equality

Discrimination against consanguinamory pressures people to cheat and deceive rather than being open and honest. With full marriage equality and the removal of laws, stigmas, and prejudices against consensual sex and relationships, people will be much less likely to feel a need to sneak around and hide. They will have more freedom to talk about what they need and want and to seek the relationships in which they'll best function, and that will make things better for everyone.


Related:







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Friday, October 13, 2017

Cautious Consanguinamory


So, someone you already love wants to love you more, and you want to love them more; you’re mutually attracted. And you’ve considered the pros and cons and have decided to go for it. You want to add sexual affection to your relationship.

But you feel a need to go slowly.


You could be nervous and very cautious because it is new, because such experiences are an unknown to you, or because you’ve internalized cultural prejudices.
How do you move forward with care?
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Let's Break the Silence and Bring People Out of the Shadows and Closets

One definition of "taboo" is "a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice."

That means it is possible for many people to be doing something and still have it "taboo" in the sense that nobody talks about it, at least not openly or publicly. The problem with not talking about things is that such silence can lead to serious negative consequences.

Thanks to technology, people can search out information about something without having to ask someone they live with or next to, or a teacher.

Want to know the most popular entry for this blog?

It's not even close.

The most popular entry on this blog, by far, is the entry addressing a frequently asked question of "How Common is Consensual Incest (Consanguinamory)? People from all over the world, but especially North America, Europe, India, and Australia, use search engines to answer the question, and those searches bring them here. The geography is no doubt a reflection of the blog being written in English. (Perhaps I should post more translated entries?)

Before going further, let’s make it clear this entry is talking about sex or sex-play or exploration that is consensual (we’ll call it Category S), not anything involving assault, molestation, or coercion (Category X). We shouldn’t have to reiterate that “sex” means consensual, but unfortunately we still do. (It’s not sex if it isn’t consensual, it is assault.)

The volume of searches and visits can't be accounted for solely by curiosity and journalistic or academic research. Some of that volume is from people who are, were, or want to be involved, or think or are certain someone they know is, perhaps even their partner. We know this because of the comments they leave and the messages they send, and all of the other entries they visit after coming to the blog through their initial question.

Based just on searches that invoke the question and other searches that find this blog*, there are a lot of people who have been involved, are involved, or want to be involved sexually or romantically, or want to be married to, someone law or custom forbids as too close of a relative. Yes, some people are completely disgusted by the thought, but clearly there are many who aren't. And some people are unable to hear or read anything about Category S without thinking of Category X, perhaps because they have been assaulted, which is terrible, but we should not avoid talking about sex because of assault. Even if person A is disgusted by the thought persons B and C having sex, or doesn't understand why these people are involved, persons B and C should be free to be together how they mutually agree.

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Wednesday, October 11, 2017

Coming Out Day

Even with the US Supreme Court decision bringing all states online with the limited monogamous same-gender freedom to marry, and some recent laws enacted for the protection and rights of LGBT people in the US and other countries, life can be tough for someone whose identity and orientation doesn’t fit in to a little heterosexual, monogamous, "traditional"-gender-role box or whose relationship doesn’t meet the local sex police’s approved standards. Sometimes, a person or the people in a relationship want to come out of the closet. Sometimes they need to come out. For some of these people, it is a little less difficult if they do so as part of a communal event, such as National Coming Out Day.

National Coming Out Day is today, October 11. Here’s the official website, at least for the US. There is much helpful information there, regardless of where you live.

The more people that come out, the more the others around them will realize they do know and appreciate people who are LGBT, or polyamorous, or consanguinamorous, and that such people and relationships deserve equality. So coming out helps progress.

On the other hand, it is understandable that any given person, couple, triad, or quad decides to stay in the closet for now. There’s still so much hate, so much prejudice and persecution, and even unjust laws that hinder the life and love of people who are good citizens and just want to be themselves. I support the decision of anyone who believes they need to be reserved for now for the sake of their safety and family.

The decision to come out is yours. Do you want to come out, and to whom? Your friends? Your family? Your coworkers? Your classmates? Your neighbors? Your crush? The whole world?

Also, if someone comes out to you, the decision to be an ally is yours. If your classmate, coworker, neighbor, friend, parent, child, or sibling comes to you and says they are gay, lesbian, bisexual, polysexual, pansexual, transgender, polyamorous, or in a consanguinamorous relationship, what will you do? Will you choose love and acceptance?

Even if you are heterosexual, monogamous, and nonconsanguinamorous, you may want to come out as an ally for full marriage equality. That alone can take courage, but it helps.

If you are planning to come out, or you do come out, please feel free to share your experience here by commenting.
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Advice on Coming Out as Polyamorous to Your Parents

Since claimed (serial) monogamy is usually presented as the default relationship model, polyamorists sometimes have a need to come out to others, including their parents. has some advice at everydayfeminism.com about coming out to your parents.
Maybe you’re already seeing more than one partner, or you’re hoping or planning to. Maybe you’re in a monogamous relationship that you want to open up. Maybe you’ve already told a few close friends, or your entire Facebook friends list.
If you're doing these things, your parents are probably figuring it out already, at least on some level.
1. Show Them Some 101 Resources

You don’t have to do all the work of explaining polyamory to your parents yourself. Luckily, many have already invented that particular wheel.

olyamorous educator Franklin Veaux provides a useful introduction to polyamory at his website, More Than Two. This PDF by Cherie L. Ve Ard and Franklin Veaux includes both a glossary and some common polyamory myths. The books Opening Up, More Than Two, and The Ethical Slut include lots of introductory material for those who don’t know much about polyamory and could be great gifts if you think your parents might want a more in-depth explanation.

Many cities also have local groups that have events and meetings, some of which are geared towards people who are curious or apprehensive about polyamory and hoping to learn more. If you think this might help your parents, you can try searching Meetup for a group in their area.
Go read through the rest of it if you have any interest. It is helpful. Be prepared for the standard arguments people try to make against polyamory.
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Tuesday, October 10, 2017

Consanguinamory and Reproduction

One of the most common reasons given to object to the right to consanguineous relationships is what I call the "mutant baby" argument. Even some people who support the right to consanguinamory and have even engaged in consanguineous sex themselves join with bigots in being strongly against close relatives having children together because of prejudiced backlash or the increased risk of birth defects.

In regards to the prejudiced backlash, the answer is not to let bigots have their way. It is for bigots to lose their power to bully, prosecute, and break up homes. Don't want children of consanguineous parents to have a hard time? Do not give them a hard time.

In regards to the increased risk of birth defects, scientific understanding is often lacking.

Most sexual encounters do not result in a birth. Many people who have relationships or marry never have genetic children together; some people in consanguinamorous relationships choose not to. So, we must recognize the differences between sex, marriage, parenting, and reproduction, and not ban the first three because of concerns about the last one.

But let's deal with that last one.

Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. There are happy, healthy, bright, attractive people born to close relatives who are productive members of society. We all know some, whether we know it or not, and whether they know it or not. It is that common. (Sometimes, they were conceived by an abuser, but often, not by an abuser but by mutual lovers.) We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. For example, it is entirely legal in the US and most other places for someone with Huntington's Disease to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children. How can such rights be denied to people who are genetically healthy, simply because they are close relatives?

It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of genetic problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. (UPDATE: Please see this wonky elaboration written by a Friend of FME.) There are US states and there are countries where consanguinamory is not illegal or at least it isn't prosecuted. Sweden will legally marry half-siblings in some circumstances. A comparison of the rate of genetic problems in these places to places that criminalize and actively prosecute consanguinamory reveals no discernible increase in genetic problems in the places that embrace this relationship right.

If a natural talent or gift runs in the family, the children born to consanguineous parents will be more likely to inherit and manifest that beneficial result as well; a birth benefit. But there are increased odds of problem with births to older parents, too. There's no stigma assigned to that, and it isn't illegal for older people to date, have sex, marry, and have genetic children together.

Anyone concerned about these things should have genetic testing and counseling. People who are not close relatives can pass along health problems, too.

The "birth defects" argument also implies that people with disabilities or some other birth defect are living lives so terrible that they should never have been born at all. Yet, there are many such people who are leading happy, fulfilling, productive lives.

But a current problem, in some (not all) cases, is that in giving birth, consanguineous parents will be outing themselves to someone who is prejudiced, and there will now be evidence of their (in some places) illegal love that can be used against them.

There are consanguinamorous parents happily raising their healthy children together. But some consanguinamorous relationships face very real threats. Again, the answer is to stop the persecution and prosecution. There is no good reason to deny consenting adults their equal protection of having their relationship and reproductive rights.

Consanguinamorous or not, anyone engaging in heterosexual intercourse should be aware of the possibility of pregnancy, the various forms of birth control and other options available, and the realities if pregnancy, birth, and raising children.

UPDATE: Jane has a great essay on these topics here.

With all of that in mind, let's look at this thread on a consensual incest discussion board. (The discussion is explicit, so if you have a problem with that, you are warned.)

carebear82 wrote…

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Sunday, October 8, 2017

The Family Business

Consanguinamory has always been depicted on our stories because it has always been a part of life. But what about when the story itself doesn't have consanguinamory, but the performers are close relatives playing love interests? at screenrant.com noted "15 Times Siblings Played Love Interests In Movies and TV"...
Yes, you read that correctly: real brothers and sisters have portrayed characters who want to do the nasty with each other, and several have even included full-blown make outs or steamy bedroom scenes.
The nasty? Sibling consanguinamory is often a beautiful thing.
9. Sophie and Eloise Lovell Anderson (The Bastard Executioner) Disturbing as it may be, there’s a long-accepted male fantasy that involves bedding twin sisters – either separately, or at the same time. For most, it’s something that stays firmly in the fantasy realm, or is pulled out for a sitcom punch-line. However, real-life twin sisters Sophie and Eloise Lovell Anderson brought that fantasy to life in The Bastard Executioner, where the two play twin prostitutes.

The scheming Clara and Ramona decided to use their sexy similarities to seduce a target into having a threesome with them. The scene wasn’t just implied, either, but a graphic sex sequence that includes both girls naked in bed with their conquest, and making out not just with the man, but with each other as well.
Rose Moore really, really wants to make it clear she finds this all disgusting.

7. Pepi and Ruth Hermine (Putney Swope)
This satirical black comedy about the advertising business, racism, and corporate corruption was an arthouse hit when it was released in 1969 – but it includes one particularly incestuous scene where siblings aren’t just portraying a married couple, but share a loving kiss in bed.

Putney Swope’s President of the United States was portrayed by Pepi Hermine, while his (nameless) First Lady was played by his own sister, Ruth Hermine. One of their scenes involved the two getting into bed and kissing each other with real gusto, and leaving the rest to the audience’s imagination. Director Robert Downey Sr. revealed that he didn’t realize that the two were brother and sister when he cast them, but said that when he found out “it made it twice as funny”.
Yes... funny.

3. Meret and Ben Becker (The Harmonist)
Meret and Ben Becker may not be as well known as some of the other Hollywood families on this list, but these siblings share one of the steamiest love scenes of any real-life relatives on the big screen.

The two starred opposite each other in The Harmonists, a semi-fictional film about the rise and fall of a popular vocal group in Germany in the 1930s. Ben Becker stars as Robert Biberti, one third of a love triangle completed by another Harmonist, Harry, and Meret Becker’s Erna Eggstein. Both men fall in love with Erna, and although she begins the movie in love with Harry (and the two even consummate their romance), he cannot commit to her. Robert, his confident friend, ends up wooing her instead, and the two have a secret affair, including a passionate on-screen kiss… between a real-life brother and sister.
And finally...
1. Chyler Leigh and Christopher Khayman Lee (Kickboxing Academy)

Sorry folks, but we have indeed shared the worst for last. Forgive us.

Chyler Leigh may have made a name for herself in great shows like Grey’s Anatomy and Supergirl, but she’s also been in a couple pretty awful things as well – and topping the list of bad movies has to be Kickboxing Academy. This ‘90s teen rip-off of The Karate Kid stars Leigh as Cindy, a student at (you guessed it) Kickboxing Academy, a school preparing to take on their rival martial arts academy.

Also appearing in the film is her real-life brother, Christopher Khayman Lee, who plays ex-kickboxer Danny… and his own sister’s romantic lead. (You might recognize him from his days as the Red Ranger Andros from Power Rangers In Space.) Throughout the film, the two have several make-out sessions, at a time when she was only fifteen, and he was nineteen – and in a role that clearly should have been given to someone less… related… to the star.
Notice that these are all somewhat mainstream, not professional or amateur porn or erotica. There's plenty of such videos which claim to feature actual close relatives as performers. In these mainstream productions, unlike with porn, the performers are usually concentrating so much on their lines and movements, surrounded by crew and equipment, to the point it doesn't feel sexy to them at all. But I do wonder how many of them practiced in private to make it look as convincing as possible on the screen?

This also reminds me that just about everyone who has ever had nude/love scenes in movies or on stage or appeared nude in magazines (remember those?) or on websites has had living close relatives, most of whom have no doubt seen at least some of the imagery. I wonder how many consanguinamorous relationships have their generation in that?


None of this is to be confused with unrelated actors playing siblings while the actors had things for each other. That has been more common than people might think, and always has been. For a couple of old examples, there are scenes in the original Beverly Hills, 90210 in which Shannen Doherty can barely hide her lust for Jason Priestly, but in "Ferris Bueller's Day Off," Mathew Broderick and Jennifer Grey do a much better job of avoiding giving off those vibes.

Some comments were left after the article...
Dear Screenrant,
Despite the most popular show on television showcasing incest, it is NOT part of acceptable culture. Please refrain from writing articles (false and baseless ones at that) about this offensive subject.
Just because pop culture has brought it to the fore front of conversation does not mean it needs to be talked about. Please, please stop it. UGH.
I wonder if that person realizes that there are no doubt people in his life who are consanguinamorous? People his admires and respects?

Frankly, is way past time for Hollywood to seriously challenge the oppression of consanguinamorous people. There are actors, writers, directors, producers, and everyone else involved in making movies and television shows who have experience with consanguinamory, and it would be great if they would speak up and put their experiences into some sensitive productions.
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Saturday, October 7, 2017

Frequently Asked Question: Is This Incest?

One frequently asked question is whether dating this person would be incest, or if doing this activity with a close relative is incest. The question is posed in different ways…

Is this incest?
Is it incest to date my in-law?
Is it incest to date my adopted sister?
Is it incest to date my adopted brother?
Is it incest to date my stepbrother?
Is it incest to date my stepsister?
Is it incest to date my uncle?
Is it incest to date my aunt?
Is it incest to date my cousin?
Is it incest to kiss my brother?
Is it incest to kiss my sister?
It it incest if my sibling and I have masturbated in front of each other?

The subtext is usually, “Is it wrong?

First of all, regardless of laws, I see nothing wrong with any kind of physical affection, contact, or companionship between any consenting adults or minors who are close in age, as long as existing vows to others are not being violated. This includes dating, literally sleeping together, seeing each other nude, hand-holding, hugging, kissing (of any sort,) contact with genitals, intercourse, living together, marrying, etc. If these people are right for each other and want this with each other, then it shouldn’t be anyone else’s place to object.

As I always point out, I’m writing about consensual experimentation, exploration, affection, making out, sex, love, dating, partnering, living together, and marriage. I’m not talking about assault, molestation, abuse, or coercion. If someone forces themselves on you, that is wrong regardless of their relation to you.

What is incest? That depends on who you ask. The definition I once found at Wikipedia was

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Friday, October 6, 2017

Guilt By False Association

This post carries a ***TRIGGER WARNING*** because we will be discussing abuse and quoting/paraphrasing hateful, bigoted, discriminatory, sexist, racist, homophobic statements to expose the tactic of "guilt" by false association long used by anti-equality holdouts.

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